Indian Dam
Welcome!
We are very happy that you have come to visit our site. We are here to save the Indian Dam on the Perkiomen Creek, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania!
YOU CAN HELP!
There are many things you can do to help us in saving the Indian Head Dam. We would certainly appreciate your support and participation in our cause!
PLEASE SIGN OUR PETITION ONLINE TO SAVE THE INDIAN DAM: http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/saveindiandam.
For supporters in the SAME household, enter each person as a separate line entry.
(If you cannot click on the above link to take you to the petition, cut and paste the link into your web browser bar).
or
Print out a paper petition to collect signatures from other supporters (If you cannot access any of our downloads, click Adobe Reader for a free download to access these files).
Print out a flyer to inform others of our contact information and online petition.
Write to your local legislature indicating your support for saving the dam. Contact information is provided here.
Display a sign on your property indicating your support to save the Indian Head Dam. These signs provide contact information for others interested in supporting this cause. Call our Dam hotline at 610-650-8911 to obtain a sign.
Join us by becoming active in one of our committees. We have committees that are planning the fundraising picnic event, planning booths for the Bi-centennial celebrations in both Upper and Lower Providence Townships (being held in September), and we have a political action committee and a financial committee, just to name a few. Expertise of all kinds is needed, and mostly, we need people who just want to get involved to help save Indian Head Dam!! Contact 610-650-8911 to sign up, or email us at saveindiandam@comcast.net. We will get you in touch with our committee chairpersons.
Contact for more information or join our crusade:
- Email: saveindiandam@comcast.net!
- Phone: 610-650-8911
- Fax: 610-672-0615
Please help us to preserve this area of recreation for the community and residents for future generations. Thank you for your support.
Best Regards,
Indian Head Watershed Association
MEETINGS of the Indian Head Watershed:
Our first public meeting held July 31st. We had a great turnout of over 70 attendees. Our focus was to determine our best avenues to save the dam.
Our second meeting was held on August 7th. Jackie Crahalla, PA State Representative, was in attendance and vocalized her support in our efforts. We would like to offically thank Jackie for her support in our cause! At this meeting we set up our committees. Should you be interested in joining us, please email us at saveindiandam@comcast.net or call us at 610-650-8911.
posted by Indian Head Watershed Association @ 6:41 PM
40 Comments:
keep the dam - save the eagle!
it's a great place for families! Eagles live on big bodies of water - take out the dam, there is no longer a big body of water!
I've been told that the dams prevent fish from populating the river and that we'd have more fish and cleaner water without the dams. I'm also aware that a number of boaters have been killed by the hydrolics created at the foot of low-head dams. Finally, don't the dams support flooding along the creek? What are your thoughts?
The reason I am interested is that I live along the Perkiomen Creek in Arcola, PA (This is just upstream from the Oaks exit of 422) & the DEP is removing all the dams in the area (at least 2 so far). The ones they have taken out were larger & had safety concerns due to the type of dam they were (rollover/sluece) which caused people to be trapped by them & drown if they got too close. The Indian Head Dam is not this type - it is low (5ft) & flat (it was a road at one time & fed a mill). We used to spend many hours as kids sitting directly under it during the summer to keep cool. The water depth on the overflow side is only about 1 ft deep - very safe. We have formed a committee to try & save our dam (75 people attended the last meeting). The pool is very nice for boating & fishing & swimming but will be very shallow if the dam is removed.
My question concerns the changed hydrology of this area & whether my feelings that the dam acts as a buffer to give fish & wildlife somewhere to go during droughts & hot weather. As a kid, I remember going to the bottom of the deeper pools (8-12 ft) & remembering how much cooler the water was. This region is nearly completely covered with development now & the creeks character has changed dramatically. The water goes up quickly from runoff & drops quicker during drought. There are many fewer springs feeding the creek. When we moved here in 1968 our neighborhood all had wells that were 65 ft deep. Once the development uphill from us sank 6 wells to supply the hundreds of homes that were built all our wells went dry & we now have deep 300 foot wells. I am sure this has happened throughout the region.
The many drainage basins in the area found at all the housing developments & industrial sites used to be designed with an overflow tube to allow some water to sink back into the water table. Several years ago, when the West Nile Virus scare first started, the controlling powers decided they didn't want any standing water around so they allowed them to remove the tubes & place a large open culvert at the base of the basin rendering them useless (I personally witness this at the Wyeth Pharmaceutical site - where absolutely no water is held by these basins even when we get tropical storm type rains).
My question is - are my feelings correct that the pool formed by the dam does act as a buffer to help keep some of the water here & will it help the fish & wildlife that depend on the creek. The DEP seems to think that putting the creek back to its "native state" is best - I get the feeling they are ignoring the fact that it will not be possible to do so with the changes (development) which have happened to this region.
Please let me know what you think & if you agree is there someone you could recommend to us who would be able to help (by writing or appearing at a public meeting). As a scientist I just don't want to blindly agree with the DEP since they have not provided us with any hydrology study data to support their position.
They have removed a couple of the dams already – lets take some time & research the effects it has had before we potentially ruin the entire fishery. We don’t want to end up with a creek like those you see in the southwest – yeah there is a sign that says river but there isn’t any water (or just a trickle) - until it rains.
There is of course the quality of life issue for those who use the creek for fishing and boating. This part of the county has very limited resources that allow this type of activity. The county just built a park with a boat ramp at this site & it will be useless. The DEP itself has reported that the East Branch of the creek dries up in the summer & the Skippack Creek (which is the major tributary above this dam) is reported as one of the worst bodies of water in the state – partly since it nearly dries up in the summer. We need to step back and take a good look at what the DEP calls returning the creek to its native state means. Let’s err on the side of caution & patience. Once the water is gone it’s not coming back.
The people who treasure the outdoors & help protect it the most are those who have access to such sites where they can participate in nature. Lets keep this resource available for our & future generations to enjoy.
Indianhead dam was built in the 1700's. After 300 years of existence, I believe it has created it's own vital environment. This year alone, I have seen a Bald Eagle feeding just above the dam, two minks fishing at our dock and the many deer and an occasional fox who come to drink when the small streams have dried up in the summer months. I also understand there have been sightings of river otters. Regarding the fish population, the fact that it is a favorite fishing spot for the great blue heron, speaks for itself. This June, my husband caught a 20" bass (pretty big) he has also caught perch and trout. The Perkiomen Creek has been written about in the Pennsylvania Angler as one of the best bass fishing areas in the state. Many different types of water foul use this waterway. As I said previously, the the Great Blue Heron, A wide variety of ducks, swallows, etc. as well as many different types of migrating birds including loons, egrets, and even a swan. There is a unique habitat on the perkiomen which can only be changed DRAMATICALLY if the Indianhead dam is removed. Addressing the danger concern, You assume a certain degree of risk anywhere you go, whether it be riding your bike, crossing the street, or boating on a creek. I don't agree with blaming others for not exercising basic common sense (ie, looking before you cross the street or not boating during a flood). I can find no record of ANY serious injury caused by this dam, aside from cutting your foot on a sharp stone walking across it (which I did once). This dam has many benefits to both wildlife and recreation. I certainly hope that we take some time to examine the bigger picture before we race to remove it.
Isn't this damn also historical? Wasn't this the area where the first copper mine was? I just saw this in a book on the Perkiomen creek. Pack-n-Plus, next to Redners in Collegeville had copies of the book for sale.
I mean no disrespect, but is this really a big issue for the people in Lower Providence and Arcola? This damn is man-made, encourages flooding, and causes an unsafe condition for children and others. I see no good reason to save this dam - there are boat slips a few miles away in Upper Providence on the Schuylkill, which is a much bigger river, anyway. The eagle is a good excuse to keep the dam, but I bet that the eagle will be smart enough to go to the Schuylkill a few miles away if he needs to. Let's bring the creek back to its natural state.
This is almost like NIMBY-ism in reverse. What would you say if someone wanted to build a dam in your backyard? Wouldn't you be against that? It's not your dam anyway, it belongs to its legal owner.
To the last comment. I don't know how long you've resided in the area but this IS in our back yard. It's because of all these new obtrusive developements that this is even an issue.
There are very few spots in Montgomery County, if any, that can compare in beauty to the lower Perkiomen Creek above the Indianhead Dam. Amidst the growing urbanization in the county, this place is truly a unique piece of paradise. This stretch of creek provides a habitat for numerous fish species, reptiles, small mammals, and waterfowl. But most importantly it is a habitat for the good people who enjoy being outdoors. Whether it is swimming, fishing, boating, canoeing, kayaking, or just lounging in an inner tube on a hot August day, everyone enjoys themselves on this stretch of the Perk.
How can the DEP believe that they can restore the creek to it's natural state. Have you seen the results from the destruction of the dam near the Schukill river. It looks like a barren wasteland. Nothing natural about it at all.
Shouldn't some streambank restoration have been performed?
I am a novice to this subject. I am a relative "new comer" to the area and live in one of the developments that others here have spoken of. I admit I know nothing about dams or what this dam in particular does or does not do. My understanding of the DEP's position is that by removing the dams the overflow of water during heavy storms or snow melt-off will not be hindered and therefore flooding will be reduced. It sounds like a good idea. I also live along the Perkiomen Creek and, whereas I do not fish or boat, I do enjoy its beauty and wildlife. I chose to move here because of it. If there is to be a meeting I would appreciate hearing both sides so an intelligent decision can be made. I see the flooding at the foot of Level Rd. and along Arcola Rd. That is a potentially dangerous situation. There must be some way to minimize the flooding while preserving the beauty and recreational opportunities the creek provides.
A Simple Question
I just became aware of this issue while biking on the Perk Trail. I have biked the entire length of this trail several times. This trail is truly one of the gems in PA. There are some pretty stunning spots between Perk Park and Spring mtn. But where exactly is this dam? Can it be seen from the trail?
Reply to Steve: The dam cannot be seen from the bike trail. I believe it is located on private property a few hundred yards upstream from where the bike trail drops behind the SEI complex. It also is not very big, perhaps 5ft tall.
In regards to the issue of flooding, I do indeed live directly on the Perkiomen, and am very familiar with the flooding that occurs of my property here.
When the severe flooding occurs to the point where it threatens that area of Arcola/Level road and the homes right on the creek, the water levels increase in the creek by 8-10 feet or more to attain that flooding level. The dam stands only about 4 feet high, so when the water rises by 10 feet, it does not matter whether the dam is there or not there - the creek is way above the height of the dam by that point anyway.
If the dam is gone, the floodwaters will still threaten the road and properties of the homes, given the height that the water has to rise before homes/roads are impacted. In fact, the area downstream to the dam actually floods BEFORE the areas upstream to the dam!!!
Further, much of the new development and run-off that occurs into the creek as a result was considered by the building engineers, who factored in the dam and CURRENT waterway. The impact is really unknown as to what will happen, should the dam be removed. My guess is, flashflooding, due to higher/faster rises in water levels, causing erosion of properties directly on the creek, will occur, and a potentially faster-flowing, dangerous creek during high-water times.
Seems as if the saving of the dam will ultimately help the folks who live on the river (sans the eagle and the few beaver). Are the folks who live on the river willing to provide access to the water for "boating and fishing". I think not....
Scott
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Scott,
There is access to the creek from Hoy Park, located off of Arcola Rd.. The County and Township recently installed a boat ramp there for anyone to use. The residents living on the creek would take a huge liability risk if they allowed people acess from their dock and such. If someone should slip and fall while using their property/dock they could be sued very easily nowadays.
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It would be a shame to remove this dam. It would devastate both sides of the creek. Hoy Park is the only waterfront park in Lower Providence, this park has a boat ramp where folks can put in a canoe or row boat and enjoy the wildlife on the creek. I have seen great blue herons, egrets, wood ducks, mallards, and many other water birds along the banks. When I was a teenager we stocked this part of the Perky with fingerling Muskies which have grown to adult size and are occasionally caught to a fisherman's surprise. They are over 36 inches long, they will disappear if the dam is removed along with much of the other wildlife. Lets think about what we are doing to our environment.
Reply to Steve and Pat,
You can certainly see the dam from the Perkiomen Trail. Going south on the trail you will come out onto Lower Indian Head Road and parallel the Perky, look up to the left after making the right turn, you will hear and see this beautiful dam. (Years ago you could drive over the dam breast and go from Lower Indian head Rd. to Tyson Mill Road) There are also the remains of the mill on the trail side of the Perky, just get off your bike and walk into the woods just below the dam.
I was not aware of the water access at Hoy Park. Thnaks for the info.
Save the dam!
I spent some time at the Montgomery County Historical Society Tuesday and found some history on the Mill that stood at the Dam.
It is generally believed that the Mill was built in 1792. The Dam may have been built earlier. The Mill has been known as Keyser's Mill, since the Keyser family owned and operated it for the greater part of the 1800's and early 1900's.
There was definitely a road that crossed the breatworks of the Dam connecting Tyson Mill Rd to the Mill. Maps from the mid 1800s clearly show this road.
In regards to the flooding issue,
I have had more water problems with the storm drainage on Arcola Rd than the Perky behind my house.
Flood insurance does not cover ground water from the road coming into your house!
I live in Skippack on the Perk right above the "removed" Collegeville Dam. You can walk across the creek now, and there isn't enough water for even a small canoe. The water table is extreemly lower than before the Dam was removed. We also have noted our well water becomes muddy during rain storms and drouts, which never happened before the Collegeville Dam was removed. If the Indian Head Dam is removed, our section of creek will be virtually dry and we worry about our wells. This will affect Perk Dwellers way up-stream.
My husband was born and raised on this creek. When we got married, we owned property in Collegeville on the opposite side of the Perky near Collegville Inn. then we moved back to my husbands house when his father died. We bought the home off of his mom back in the 70's. We raised two children here and now have 3 grandsons. Imagine boys on the creek in their own canoe, paddleboat, etc. If they take out the creek, it will be the end of a big part of our life. My husband used to swim in the creek, as well as my daughters. Swinging off of ropes hanging in trees. When I dated him we used to spend hours down the creek. We now own a piece of creek frontage that my Grandmother bought years ago. It will be given to my gransons some day. But who will want it with a muddy path goin up the middle of it instead of a creek. Just a useless peice of land. We need to save the dam and concentrate on a bridge.We keep building more and more developments and take away any useable ground for recreation. Lets stop killing the land people and get back to nature. There are still a lot of us that enjoy being outside. For those of you that don't, you are missing life.
the Perk provides a little bit of country in an area that has a bad case of urban sprall. The owner of the Indianhead Dam is being pressured to remove the dam by a goverment agency using taxpayers $$
This agency has an agenda. When asked, their information on the dam was weak and incorrect. The science they use to push their agenda is flawed and easily refuted. That is why they are trying to move so quickly. Because of the development in the region and it's effect on the creek the "restoration" that they are promoting is unattainable. The dams on the river help control the water. The dam being in place for over 200 years has provided a unique and delicated ecosystem. The Perkiomen is a slow warm water creek with or with out the dams. The dams provide cool water pockets for the aquatic life during the heat of the summer. As the dams are removed these pockets disappear and the fish "boil" in the hot water. During the last few weeks I have seen the dead fish floating down the creek (mostly catfish and smallmouth bass). this agency says with the dams removed the shad will again swim up the rivers of Pennsyvania. There is no evidence that the shad has ever swam up the Perkiomen River. But many stories of the Bass, catfish, freshwater eels, perch. We have even caught trout off our pier in July (See they come down the Skippack is search of the cooler water provided by the Indianhead Dam) Come to Hoy Park in Upper Providence Twp and see what this dam provides
My great uncle found the Perkiomen on a hunting trip. We always called the area "Up the Country". My children are the 4th generation in our family to Summer on the Perk. Growing up on the creek has instilled in each of us a respect and a love of nature. We all learned water safety at a young age. How to swim, boat, fish. My 2 year old just learned to swim unaided last week. To live here is to love it. But a few years ago something changed. The Hoy family donated their creek front property to the community. And Montgomery County finished the Perkiomen Trail. Now this is not something that just belongs to the property owners along the creek but to the community too. Your children too can learn about the river in a safe enviroment. To repect and love this natural setting. The Indianhead Dam has a rich history of being a community gathering place because of the recreational opertunities it provides. Check out Jerry Chiccorine's just published Postcards of the Perkiomen Creek. During a flood the creek is a wild monster of a waterway and should be given the repect due of the dangerous situation that it is. But come on any other day and enjoy its peaceful serenity. That's what makes this place special and why we are working so hard to save it.
Is this effort to save the dam for the primary benefit of those property owners upstream that currently enjoy the creek? Are there any facts that suggest that removal of dams ruin the ecosystem -? If so post them - that is your best argument.
iwatched folks young and old enjoy the perky this past weekend.but the sounds of the children laughing and enjoying themselves as only they can.made me think what a treasure we have here above the dam.we just have to save the dam!
I find it absolutely amazing that people want the owner of this dam to be responsible for liability issues so they can play in the creek
What is the push to tear down the dam? If it has been there for over 200 years why not just leave it alone?
I think the reasons to tear down the dam are (and they are doing this across the country)...
1 - Safety - these dams cause currents that young and old swimmers could be caught in
2 - Flooding - although I don't think this particular dam causes flooding
3 - Liability - who wants to own a dam and be liable for it
4 - To bring the habitat back to how it was years ago.
IN THE SPIRIT OF TURNING BACK THE HANDS OF TIME I PROPOSE WE DONT JUST STOP WITH THE DAMS BUT TEAR DOWN ALL THE STRUCTURES WITHIN 300 YARDS OF THE WATERS EDGE. THIS WOULD INCLUDE BOAT HOUSE ROW AND THE ART MUSEUM.BECAUSE AFTER ALL,ARE THEY NOT JUST PLAYING IN AND NEAR THE RIVER.AND PERHAPS 95% OF US COULD STOP USING THE INDOOR PLUMBING.AS THIS WAS HOW IT WAS IN THE GOOD OL DAYS.
No one is expecting any one owner to accept liability. Unfortunately, law suits are the accepted way of our civilization, even if some person(s) exercise poor judgement in flooding conditions or act foolishly and become injured or worse.
First, no one has ever been killed on the Indianhead dam. Further, most who are killed on dams go out in flooding conditions and foolishly think they can negotiate the flooding waters - a problem whether there are dams or not. In a creek such as the Perkiomen, in flood stage waters, it would be very easy to be swept into a tree that is consumed by the flood waters.
The idea here is to find a way to preserve the COMMUNITY's opportunity to enjoy the recreational still waters created by the dam - to allow the continuation of recreation for generations that includes fishing, boating and swimming in still waters. Where else can that be done in Montgomery County?
As I understand, this Association is looking for ways to minimize liability and yet find a way to maintain the recreation that has occurred here for many generations, literally.
The entire community can enjoy this "spot". Come see what it's all about! Go to Hoy Park (on Arcola Road near the mouth of the Skippack into the Perkiomen), and drop in your boat or canoe - you're in for a wonderful treat!
There is much support in our community to preserve the current waterway and dam as it stands - if you are a doubting Thomas - you must visit this area to really get a sense of what everyone is up-in-arms about.
in answer to anonymous and anonymous...
Those of us interested in keeping the dam do not want the owner to deal with the liability, our hope is that the owner will turn the dam over to the townships or the county. To the best of my knowledge there is no financial gain for the owner whether the dam is taken down or not, except for the liability of course.
As far as the safety issue is concerned, this dam is NOT a 'drowning machine" as some run-of-the-river dams have been dubbed. It's built on bedrock so there is no 'scour hole' and no 'boil' on the downstream side. Also, because the dam is so wide there is no possibility of being swept over under non-flooding conditions. Young ducks feed on the dam without being swept over, human swimmers are in no danger there. There are no drownings attributed to this dam for at least the last hundred years.
Moving on to the last point; it is not possible to return the river to it's pre-dam condition since the dam is over 200 years old. There are at least 4 dams between Indianhead and the Delaware River so it seems a fairly remote possiblilty that shad or other migratory fish would make it this far.
Beyond the benefits of recreation there are concerns about the water table and runoff. The water table will drop if the dam is removed, we can't know what effect that will have wells in the area. I don't know if the water behind the dam is technically a retention basin but it is one of the few places where the water slows down enough to make absorption possible.
Removing dams needs to considered case by case. The benefits in this case of keeping the dam would seem (in my admittedly biased view) to out weigh the benefits of removal.
Thanks for reading. jb
Leave it to the government to create problems where there are none. it seems that those who live along the creek want the dam left intact. they are the ones most affected by any decission so let thier voices be heard. my vote would be to fix the dam potholes and leave well enough alone.
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